Let's be frank about it. PAS has always been consistent when it comes to Islamic state and hudud laws. PAS vice-president Datuk Husam Musa has now reiterated that the Pakatan Rakyat would introduce hudud laws if it forms the next federal government. The DAP has quickly disassociated itself from the statement, according to Mstar.
Even in Penang, where PAS is a member of the ruling state government, its members have staged protest against the street dance event. In Kuala Lumpur, the party has protested outside stadiums against concerts. By keeping a stoic silence, its leaders have given support to these grassroots protest. For political expediency, there is now lesser objections from DAP and PKR over such intolerance.
PAS must be reminded that if non-Muslims voted for PAS in the March 8 polls, they did so because they were angry with BN and wanted to teach the BN a lesson. It had nothing to do with liking PAS and its policies. But non-Muslims need to keep their eyes wide open. By backing PAS, they are endorsing its policies. The Iranians threw out the Shah of Iran and embraced the Ayatollah. Decades later, they still cannot get rid of the theologians and Iran has the reputation of having the worst human rights record today. The Iranians were angry with the corrupt Shah but they are now stuck with what they chose as an alternative.
39 comments:
Dato ,
seems like you already start KT election propanda for BN .
Your comment on Iran human right issues are without facts. Don't make your own assumptions. Iran is the most powerful Muslim country that exist because of their consistency and nothing wrong with their policies. Those who are complaining them basically cannot comply with the policies not that the policies are wrong. Most of non-Muslims in Malaysia are given wrong perception and understanding about Hudud and Qisas. Go and learn it before you make any suggestion or accusation.
To all Non-Muslim,
Please evaluate your perspective of Islam not from BN or UMNO point of views. Yes PAS has always been consistent about Hudud and Qisas but it is only meant for the MUSLIM regardless of your race. For many years we have implemented Islamic Finance and nobody complaints. If you have commit no wrong then you have nothing to worry. Only those pro-UMNO/BN who are the ones oppose to the law. Think about it!!
"PAS must be reminded that if non-Muslims voted for PAS in the March 8 polls, they did so because they were angry with BN and wanted to teach the BN a lesson."
I like those phrases. What? do you think DAP won majority in Selangor, Perak adn Penang without MALAY or PAS voters? Do you think that they voted for DAP because they like DAP?
C'mon mannnnn.. you dreaming. DAP PKR will die soon in GE 13
The Anon above argued that "those who are complaining them basically cannot comply with the policies not that the policies are wrong.
You can see clearly that those who defend the hudud laws normally uphold the laws to be perfect and thus cannot be critised and modified.
Such thinking, albiet being arrogant, is dangerous as the laws of the land need to evolve with the changing Human Conscience.
For example, it may be lawful to keep slaves, marry children, stone adultress and kill apostates in the 7th century but they are no longer valid in the 21st century.
I don't see any problem that PAS having this 'hasrat'... but it will only happen if your UMNO also support too.
I voted for Pakatan Rakyat (or rather PKR to be precise) and some ofmy friends voted for PAS, not because we liked PAS, but because we did not want UMNO. That was the general mood for the anti-BN supporters in the last election, so let the anti-BN supporters not deny that. And that is nothing wrong. However unlike Iran, in Malaysia, PAS has no chance of forming the government on its own. There are many moderate and liberal Muslims in Malaysia, and if you add the non-Muslims to this number, they outnumber the talibans of PAS. This is where PAS should not get swollen headed and think that they can form the majority to control Malaysia. When they tried to impose talibanism in Terengganu, they were duly kicked out in the subsequent election. PAS has to scream their talibanism to ensure they don't lose the extremists' votes, while DAP and PKR have to go to the moderate and liberal Muslims, and non-Muslims to get the other votes. And within Pakatan Rakyat, the combined strength of PKR and DAP outnumber PAS. And if PAS pair up with BN,it is even worse for them, as the combined strength of UMNO, MCA,and the East Malaysian component parties will PAS an even smaller member. If PAS does not want to be confined just to Kelantan, they have to play ball with the other Pakatan Rakyat members. There is nothing new in singing different tunes to different audiences. It is not just PAS or DAP. The BN members do it all the time. UMNO will scream fire and anti-Chinese and anti-NonMuslim rethorics to the Malays,and say nice things to the non-Malay audience. And MCA is just as guilty. They will scream like heroes in front of the Chinese, and then go to the UMNO leaders with their tails behind their hind legs. As for the MIC, it is even worse. So if we want to have a truly two-party system, we have to support PR untilsuch time that they are even with BN. But I would not go overboard, and would not want a very dominant PR until they become like the arrogant BN/UMNO. The key word is BALANCE.
What is so suprising of PAS wanting to implement Hudud?. It's no secret that Pas strongmen like Hj. Hadi and Nik Aziz wish to turn this country to theoracratic state if they can dislodge BN from Putrajaya. Prior to 2008 election this seems impossible. However with both muslims and non-muslims backing PAS's dream would soon be realized. I disagree with WCW insinuation that non-muslims voted PAS because out of anger. More likely they dislike PAS but hate BN. To non-muslims UMNO is the king maker in BN and they despise this. PAS offers better alternative in the sense that this party only wants hudud while the economy and earthly things are being taken care off by non-muslim partners in pakatan. Non-muslims do not mind hudud as long as PAS mind its own businesss.
Yes, PAS is very consistent with their intention to introduce Hudud laws. If they came into power,
we will see a lot of armless UMNO goons!
For this very reason, I think Hudud laws for this country is justified.
i agree with you on some points datuk, but i have to say that Iran on many counts is very much different from Malaysia.
for one, Malaysia is a multiracial country, Iran is not.
second thing, Malaysia is from southeast asia, and Iran is an Arabian country.
third, Malaysia has 60% Muslims (only official stats - it might well be less than that) while Iran, their whole country 99 percent of them are Muslims.
after what happened on March 8th, i believe, further change in PAS is possible.
and, even in UMNO, that party also protested the i-dance in Penang.
so please, the propoganda here is getting quite too thick and obvious.
Malaysians nowadays vote for balance of power. When there is balance of power, then only will the people reap the most benefits!
The best of 2 angels OR the best of 2 devils pick your choice BN ( Umno ) OR Pakatan ( Pas) ?
To think Hudud laws will not encroach on non-muslims is foolish. Just look at the protest PAS has everytime there is a concert by some international western artist in Malaysia. Some acts had to be cancelled because of such protest (ie Beyonce) and why should non-muslims be deprieved of seeing a concert that is non offending to their religion?
Bring on the hudud........why so afraid of hudud........better than rape, incest, murder, robbery, bribery , police brutality, corrupt judiciary etc etc.......
VOTE BN OUT !!
I think it is better you learn about Islam from Chinese Muslim. They can explain to you clearly about Islam. We as human being is compulsory to obey to the rules of God who is Allah. You have to do more research and try to think why we are created as human. There must be some reason for that. Try to compare Islamic teaching with other religions teaching. You can take some time before you go to your bed and it is very easy...you should try it.
"PAS is always consistent." Same goes with Google search for the word nurin hudud which is always consistent in showing demands to have hudud law in Malaysia to prevent future cases of 'cucumber and brinjals'.
WCW,
You have wittingly or unwittingly become a tool of UMNO, especially Khairy Jamaluddin, to demonise PAS as a start to UMNO's Kuala Trengganu by-election campaign. Everyone knows that Husam fell into the trap KJ set for him. Husam must now be regretting that the bodek mainstream media, including the Star, were waiting for him to utter those words on hudud which would sink PAS which they lost no time in highlighting in the mainstream papers. Whatever it is WCW, please be reminded that after how they have been harshly discriminated by UMNO, the Chinese will find PAS a lesser evil, Islamic state and all.
TAKING A LOOK AT MAN-MADE LAWS
If civil laws are meant for civilised people at all
Then let the religious ones be applicable to those of that particular faith
Unless the laws chosen are of universal appeal and acceptance
It's best not to have very specific laws forced down on all
(C)Samuel Goh Kim Eng - 221208
http://MotivationInMotion.blogspot.com
Mon. 22nd Dec. 2008.
I am not PAS sympathizer like those so called 'alim' people! is all ppl in PAS are god fearing ppl? what more de PAS God is a 'thug' can also 'swear' ma? crazy ppl de.. ooh so you say hudud is great , ur gonna chop ppl's head in public? hudud is outdated in modern times, be realistic PAS! go find ur own country!
Hudud - Is it possible?
http://romerz.blogspot.com/2008/12/hudud-is-it-possible.html
Since When did you become the American propaganda machine?
Chun Wai,
PAS, like any political party, has got its right to having its own party ideology - be it political, social, or religious in form or nature (if we all believe and subscribe to democracy).
What's so wrong with that?
PAS has also acknowledged that the party cannot implement Hudud & Qisas Laws without the agreement of the other partners in the PR coalition.
PAS has also emphasized that Hudud & Qisas Laws are meant to be implemented to address largely, crimes in society which they believe will bring about a more just, fair and morally upright society.
PAS Hudud & Qisas Laws will not prevent you from studying your precious mother-tongue language, praying at your temples or churches, or eating and drinking your favourite food or beverage. Maybe it might be harder to place a bet or two at your favourite ENE outlet but I believe such outlets will not be completely closed, especially in non-Muslim majority areas.
Lastly, PAS also understand that it cannot enact Hudud & Qisas Laws without having the "ayes" from two thirds of MPs in the Dewan Rakyat.
That's why, I don't see what the fuss is all about?
Let's put emotions aside and see it objectively. This by-election is a choice between two quite undesirable groups: UMNO the corrupt, racist, arrogant group, and PAS the extremist pro-talibanism group. Whoever win the by-election will not change the status-quo of the government. Among the Malay/Muslim electorate, the votes will come in probably quite even with a small margin for the winner. The non-Malay/non-Muslim votes may tilt the balance. The non-Malay/non-Muslim can choose either to: (a) vote for UMNO to give the message to PAS that PAS should not get swollen headed and not keep pushing the hudud agenda, or (b)just treat the PAS hudud talk as just pre-election propaganda talks to fish for extremist votes, and vote for PAS to give UMNO the message that enough is enough, and it is time that UMNO cleans up itself and to stop raping the country.
There are enough liberal and moderate Muslims in Malaysia to keep PAS in check, and with the added support of the non-Muslims to these liberal & moderate Muslims, there is no way PAS can get enough parliment seats in Parliment to govern Malaysia. And even in Terengganu, look what happend to PAS when they tried to impose hudud laws to the Muslims in Terengganu when PAS once governed the state. PAS was duly kicked out in the following election.
Kassim
Many of the comments talked about how hudud laws will encroach on the rights of non-Muslims. Missing is the point that many Muslims do not want hudud laws too. There are many modern Muslims in Malaysia who prefer the modern and progrssive way of life. They want equal rights for women. They prefer monogamy. They like to wear modern fashionable clothes. They would like to enjoy a swig of fine wine now and then. They would like to go to the KTV or night clubs and let the hair down. They would like to attend concerts. The issue of hudud laws is non just a Muslim vs non-Muslim issue. It is also a extremist Muslim vs liberal/ moderate Muslim issue. Take a walk along Bangsar Baru, or Jln P.Ramlee, and then tell me if the Muslims you see there will accept hudud laws. Look at the lifestyle of the UMNO leaders and tell me if you think they will accept hudud laws. They may ask the kampung folks to attend pondok schools, but ask if they would ever send their kids there or to a posh private school. See the Muslim teenage girls with their lipsticks, modern branded dresses, their modern hairdo, listening to the latest western songs, and ask if they would ever accept hudud laws.
What is with PAS? They once tried to implement hudud laws in Terengganu and they were duly kicked out soon after. Didn't PAS learn their lesson. What makes them think that the majority of Muslims want hudud laws? PAS and their kind are ones who help the Malays stay backward. Doesn't PAS know that Muslims too want to progress and modernize and compete with the rest of the world, and not go the way of Afghanistan and Pakistan?
Awang
I am a non-Muslim. While I would be quite happy for all gambling outlets to be closed down, or for the KTV or night clubs to be either restricted in their operating hours, or in the noise level, my worry is that Hudud style governments do not stop there. It is already proven in many countries that such type of governments will regress to curbing women's rights, non-Muslims' rights, curbing of democracy, practicing whipping liberally at the slightest whims and fancies of the "enforcers", etc. Just take a look at Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi, etc. That is what PAS wants. I have many Muslim friends,and they shudder at the thought of PAS ever coming to power. Thank GOD that in Malaysia we have a lot of moderate and liberal Muslims to check the talibans. And these Muslim friends of mine are also happy there are so many non-Muslims here to help add our votes to theirs to keep check on the talibans.
PAS will never get to govern Malaysia. These swollen headed extremists cannot even count. Whether they align themselves with PR or with BN, PAS is still a minor partner. They do not understand that the majority of Muslims and non-Muslims reject their brand of extremism. That is why PKR has grown a lot faster than PAS. And that UMNO also will always be stronger than PAS. The PAS extremists is a small group,although I do admit that for a small group they do make a disproportionate amount of noise. PAS cannot see that their proposed model of government has failed Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. And even the Saudi would have failed if not for the large amount of oil wealth.
To Malayamuda: There are a lot of rape, incest, drug abuse, etc in Kelantan. There are a lot of rape, incest, murders, robbery, etc in Pakistan. It seems that hudud laws did not solve the problem there, did it?
There are many hypocrites in Malaysia. Most so-called Muslims have never studied the Quran. Most so-called Christians have never read the Bible. And most so-called Buddhists, Taoists and Hindusdo not even know anything about their religion. Most are just born into their families professing to be their repective religions. And yet many scream, quarrel and fight over their religions. And they all try to impose their religions' laws on others, even when they themselves do not practice what their religions teach them. A lot of bullshit and politics going on here.
MalaysiaBoleh
In the longer term, the most likely two-party system will be a pairing of PKR-DAP and UMNO-MCA in West Malaysia ( I can't speak about East Malaysia because I confess I don't know enough of their politics). PAS will just always be the joker that keep toggling between PKR-DAP and UMNO-MCA because these two parties cannot trust PAS loyalty. As for MIC, the Indians' numbers are so small that they are better off just merging with a bigger party.
Even without the non-Muslim votes, PAS still cannot govern Malaysia. There are more liberal Muslims than extremists in Malaysia. And the Muslims here who have already tasted to progressive modern lifestyle, cannot go backwards to the taliban style of PAS. Look what happened in Terengganu. PAS was given a sound thumping, largely on the strength of the Malay (Muslim) votes alone. The non-Muslim votes count very little in Terengganu. The non-Muslim votes provide the swing only in the major towns. The majority of Malays want to remain Malays,and not to become Arabs or talibans, which is what PAS stand for.
Dear Wong,
I think your reader Rober Teh has viewed the whole issue very objectively.
The hudud laws are only applicable to muslims and it cannot be implemented in Malaysia without amending the Constitution which requires a two third majority vote in parliament.
Is this possible in the forseeable future. The answer is extremely unlikely.
Robert Teh also made an interesting point. The hudud laws may be more effective in addressing the escalating crimes in this country. (But this does not mean I agree to these laws.)
In conclusion, it is just MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING.
You, as The Star editor show know more about the Hudud Law. It is for Muslim. Just like the Yoga's Fatwa, it is for Muslim, non of your business..
Please, don't put fuel into the fire..
Now I'm wondering how you get this post. Any insider??
Here is the political mind...Husam's first salvo was to capture the mind and support of the PAS fundamentalist (in view of the KT by election consisting of largely anti Erdogans) who wanted Hudud laws to be implemented immediately as PAS Erdogan seems to have forgotten or abandon the Hudud. This was done privately or tacitly to appease their political partners DAp and keAdilan in the name and interest of the unholy PAKATAN political cooperation to achieve power by cheating and misleading the people that they are same bedfellas...Tidur sama tapi mimpi lain-lain...PAS wanted an Islamic State and Islamic Hudud Laws to be implemented ala PAS...DAP wanted a Malaysian Malaysia to achieve equal status and standing for all Malaysians(which both PAS and keAdilan supporters will never agree)...keAdilan are frustrated UMNo typed buggers who wanted UMNo's power for their personal agenda (hopefully i am wrong)...
The subsequent Husam's damage control is to avoid an open debate which will definitely exposed and unmasked the true ugly face of PAS (to the moderate, liberal Muslims and non-Muslims who are opposed to Hudud implementation) and have been voting for PAS under the make-up or undue influence of DAp and keAdilan. Husam's explanations may have placate the power seeking leaders of DAp and keAdilan but...are we gonna risk handing over the Federal powers to PAS and risk stoning or crippled limbs??? What if subsequently PAS succesfully launched a coup de tat over UMNo and keAdilan bruthers or some of them?? Can we trust DAp to stop these fellas?????
The outcome of the KT byelection will not change the status quo of balance of power. So the rakyat of KT can choose to either:
a) send a clear message to UMNO that they are sick of UMNO,and are even willing to live with the talibans if necessary (which of course is unlikely to happen, since PAS does not have a majority), or
b)send a clear message to PAS that liberal/moderate Muslims and non-Muslims are sick and tired of PAS aim to change Malaysia to a taliban and arabized state where women get flogged and girls cannot go to school.
Whichever message KT folks want to give, BN is still in control of Terengganu and the federal government.
Kassim
I pity the folks of KT. They have to choose between the corrupt UMNO and the taliban PAS! What a lousy choice! PKR would have been a better party to take the seat!
Snatch thieves' hands must be chopped off, so hudud law is applicable
Maybe we should allow PAS in Kelantan to implement hudud law. We can then see the folly and flaws of fellow human beings. Why worry? Dire Straits or Mark Knofler!
i'm a malaysian chinese,
i don't worry if PAS want to implement HUDUD Laws in Malaysia to Muslims.
i'm non muslim, and i'm just an ordinary man, i don't do crimes. no one will kacau me.
but BN must not win next GE, we need to balance up the power. no one should be allowed to misuse power anymore.
if BN lose next GE, people's voice will become stronger!
believe me, politicians are ALL dirty if they got too much power for too long.
I am a Muslim.But I don't want hudud laws, and I don't want talibanism, and I don't want arabism. So all you talibans out there, please don't speak like you represent all Muslims. And I thank my non-Muslim friends and brothers to help us keep check on these talibans and arabs. I am proud of the songkoks, and our women's sarong kebaya. We don't want the arabs' black ninja turtle dresses for our women. And we don't want to tie turbans on our heads. We like to watch P.Ramlee movies. We don't want to watch arabic movies.
Anak Kampung.
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